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Cider Chat

Interviewing cidermakers importers, orchardists, foodies, farmers and cider enthusiasts around the world. Let’s delve into the semantics of cider…or is it hard cider, cidre, sidra or fermented apple juice? The truth is out there in Ciderville and we are going to find it. We toast in celebration of cider; As a libation, a gift from the gods, a taste of terroir, and a hard pressed good time. Ready to quench your thirst? Grab a glass and join this chat! See you in Ciderville!
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Now displaying: March, 2018
Mar 28, 2018

Tieton Cider Works was founded by Marcus Roberts and is based in Yakima Washington. Tieton works with Harmony Orchards which has 55 acres of cider apples and perry pears.

Marcus who takes a scientific approach to making cider and perry, is the General Manager of Tieton Cider Works overseeing both a modern and traditional approach to cider making.

In this chat Marcus shares how Tieton using the technique called keeving to make Perry.

Tieton Cider Works, WA

Why make Keeved Cider or Perry?

Keeving provide a sweet profile without needing to add sugar (back sweetening) when bottling.

Growing Perry Pears

Tieton has eight different varieties of Perry Pears and uses a trellis system for the pear trees. Marcus is testing the old adage “growing pears for your heirs” finding that by using a trellis system for growing in 4 years, the trees grew 12 feet!

Tieton plants trees 12 feet across and 5 feet between trees - a 12 x 5 trellis system

The limbs are trained down the wire on the trellis system.

Picking Perry Pears

Color pick the pears.

  • Pick when green- which Marcus says they develop more aroma when stored.
  • Versus picking it “dead ripe” on the tree.
  • Marcus monitors the pear to see if the pear turning yellow on the outside.
  • Once ripe, they must be pressed within 24 hours to avoid the pears turning to mush.

Tieton Perry Making methods

  • Macerate over the course of 24 hours - for the tannin structure.
  • Leaves the pulp on the juice.

Marcus says, “Some of the tannins are solvable. By leaving tannins on the juice during the process of Maceration the tannins become more supple. This is what we are going for.”

Once done, Tieton then goes through the keeving process with the perry.

Managing citric acid when making perry.

  • Manage the bacterias that produce acetic bacteria by temperature control.
  • Tieton manages it by temperature control. around 34 degrees Fahrenheit.
  • It took 5 months to drop 5 brixs at that temperature.
  • When it the peak time to drink a high tannin Perry.
  • Tannin helps the perry or cider age very slowly can cellar for a longer time and will have the tendency to get better over time.

Contact Tieton Cider Works

Mentions in this Chat

Ask for the following ciders - By supporting these cidermakers, you in turn help Cider Chat

  1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
  2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
  3. Oliver’s Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
  4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
  5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
  6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
  7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
  8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg.
  9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia
  10. Tanuki Cider Co. Santa Cruz California episode 103
  11. Ross on Wye Cider and Perry, UK
  12. Process and Analytical NMR Services - John Edwards provides analytics of cider - stay tuned for his Chemical Fingerprints workshop coming up on Cider Chat

Join the #ciderGoingUP Campaign today! 

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

 

Mar 21, 2018

Noble Cider in Asheville, North Carolina opened in 2013 after Trevor Baker lost his job in online retail. He wasn’t a cidermaker at the time, but he and his wife Joanna both enjoyed drinking cider.

After taking a cidermaking course with Peter Mitchell at WSU Mount Vernon, he delved straightaway into getting his own commercial cidery with his wife and business partner Lief Stevens.

Noble was started with around 17 grand! Having a “good business plan with a good business model” says Trevor, “Helped us secure an economic development loan of $40,000."

Before Noble became fully permitted they juiced apples and froze them in IBC totes, which are large plastic containers used throughout Ciderville around the globe for making cider.

The Tasting Room and production facility is a little outside of downtown Asheville, but this summer there will be a brand new Tasting Room right in the heart of the city.

  • Expect 20 taps that include 6 beers and seasonal small batch ciders at the current location
  • Noble makes both modern ciders and traditional ciders.
  • Both can be enjoyed in the Tasting Room and be bought in bottles to go.

The modern cider made year round at Noble

  • The flagship cider is a called The Standard Bearer. It is a crisp, dry cider at 6.9%
  • Village Tart - Cherry Cider
  • Spice Merchant - Chai Cider
  • Golden Arrow - Ginger Cider
  • There is a spring seasonal Blueberry with honey and rosemary

In 2017 the Noble Team began planting heirloom trees - Harrison, Wickson, Roxbury Russets and others

Annual production is around 100,000 gallons a year, up from 2000 gallons the first year.

Contact Noble Cider

Website: www.NobleCider.com

Phone number: 828-575-9622

Address

356 New Leicester Highway

Asheville, NC 28806

Mentions in this Chat

  • Spoke + Spy - Middletown, Connecticut cidery with Ron and Kimberly Sansome
  • Ciderthon - April 29th in the UK - a run that includes drinking cider along the way
  • Totally Cider Tours: Normandy September 23-29, 2018

Normand Cows - totally cider

 

Ask for the following ciders - By supporting these cidermakers, you in turn help Cider Chat

  1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
  2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
  3. Oliver’s Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
  4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
  5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
  6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
  7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
  8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg.
  9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia
  10. Tanuki Cider Co. Santa Cruz California episode 103
  11. Ross on Wye Cider and Perry, UK
  12. Process and Analytical NMR Services - John Edwards provides analytics of cider - stay tuned for his Chemical Fingerprints workshop coming up on Cider Chat

Join the #ciderGoingUP Campaign today! 

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

 

Mar 14, 2018

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Prevention & Correction of Sulfur-Off Odors in Cider Production was presented by Rebecca deKramer, cider specialist at Scott Laboratories at CiderCon2018.

Become an eCiderNews subscriber to download the Power Point Presentation that goes along with this presentation. Click download

This chat begins at approximately 9 minutes in.

Rebecca presents on the following topics

  • Defining Sulfur-Off Odors
  • Causes of Sulfur-Off Odors
  • Methodologies for preventing Sulfur-Off Odor formation
  • Methodologies for correcting Sulfur-Off Odors
  • What kind of strains of yeast to use
  • Temperature for fermentation
  • How much yeast to use?

Chemical Elements impacting cider

  • Sulfur - H2S (hydrogen sulfur)
  • mercaptans from by the break down of certain amino acids
    • if they oxidize, Dimethyl sulfide (DMS) or methylthiomethane is an organosulfur compound with the formula (CH3)2S can be produced. DMS is aromatic and can not easily be removed by copper - Rebekka speaks on the use of copper to remove specific odors

The first thing to do for off odor - sulfur

  • aireate
    • the most simplest technique to control off odors?
      • Rack cider off of the gross lees
  • If at the end of fermentation the cider is producing off odors, "simply stirring the gross lees into solution can help."

Most common factor contributing to sulfur off odors?

  • the yeast being stressed

Rebekka's recommendation - "Have happy yeast. If you have happy yeast, you will have a good fermentation. If you have unhappy yeast they will make your life hell."

  • Orchards that use a sulfur based spray for orchard control. Depending upon the timing of the spray it could leave residual copper on the apple, that can affect the cider.

Additional cider and cider yeast considerations

  • The more clarified or concentrated the juice will affect the fermentation as it will have less nutrients for the yeast.
  • Canning cider can make cider suspectible to oxygen

as can some screws caps

24:16 - Fermentation

Indigenous Fermentations or using wild yeast. Rebekka recommends management via nutrient control, because you do not know what yeast is in the driver seat. "It is a leap of faith"

Commercial Pitch - there are numerous options, but make sure to follow the manufacturer's recommendations.

  • If you have no temperature control for fermentation, avoid yeast that require temperature control.
  • Do not under inoculate.  The chances are high that you will have a stressed yeast if you do not follow the manufacturer's recommendations.
  • rehydrate dry yeast before pitching - to nurture a happy yeast environment

Treat as soon as you start smelling an off flavor

Use the Penny Test for finding H2S.

Drop a 1984 or earlier penny into a glass of cider and see if it removes the H2S.

will H2s or a mercaptan

It responds instantly.

If it doesn't respond Rebekka says that the cider is likely in a desulfite form treat with asorbic acid to reduce

Make sure it is a penny that is as old as 19

Contact Scott Laboratories

Mentions in this Chat

Ask for the following cideries and businesses- By supporting these cidermakers, you in turn help Cider Chat

  1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
  2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
  3. Oliver’s Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
  4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
  5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
  6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
  7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
  8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg.
  9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia
  10. Tanuki Cider Co. Santa Cruz California episode 103
  11. Ross on Wye Cider and Perry, UK
  12. Process and Analytical NMR Services - John Edwards provides analytics of cider - stay tuned for his Chemical Fingerprints workshop coming up on Cider Chat

Join the #ciderGoingUP Campaign today! 

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

Mar 7, 2018

The main chat with Gitche Gumee begins at 12:00 minutes.

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

_________________________________

Cider pairs well with food, especially Ethiopian dishes that have spicy overtones.

In this chat, Phillip Kelm and I were both attending CiderCon2018 in Baltimore thus the opportunity to dine at Ebenezer’s Ethiopian Restaurant and chat cider.

This restaurant was chosen because it offered a Bring Your Own Bottle (BYOB) option. I wanted to be able to try Phillip’s bottle of Entropy while dining.

Phillip begins with a pour of the “wild ferment” Entrophy.

We delve into his early beginnings in fermentation science... He started fermenting when he was 16 saying, “I couldn’t buy beer, but could buy a beer kit.” .. something that Phillip learned in Mother Earth News.

He became a mechanical engineer and first worked in the nuclear industry before moving onto brewing.

For most of his career he has been setting up brewing systems around the world via his business Gitche Gumee Brewing Services, a worldwide brewery installation & engineering business.

He also manages the Palau Brewing Company, home of Red Rooster Beers. Currently he is working on a cidery in India and is a partner at the South Korean cidery, The Hand and Apple.

Our dinner was primarily focused around his cidery based in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula called Gitche Gumee Ciderworks, where he makes what he called “feral ciders”.

 Apples used at Gitche Gumee

  • Foragers bring the apples to the cidery and Phillip in turns produces cider.
  • He pays .20/pound of apples. They are collecting apples by the ton.

Says Phillip, “There is no [apple] pedigree - they are wild chance seedlings.”

Cidermaking technique used for the Entropy

  • no sulfites
  • no water
  • no yeast
  • no sugar
  • Using French oak barrels.
  • The cider is left to do its own thing in the right environment.

Additional cider making notes

  • Select only the best fruit
  • Only the best skin
  • No maceration
  • Rack over the lees
  • By February the cider is out of stainless after it has been racked off the lees at least 2 times already
  • Leave the yeast behind to starve.

Managing Wild Fermentation

  • Make sure that the fruit is “solid and ripe”
  • Apples are matured for at least a few days or a week

Contact Gitche Gumee Ciderworks

Website: http://www.gitchegumeeciderworks.com/

Address:

  • 350 N Lincoln Drive
  • Hancock, MI 49930

Mentions in this chat

Threadbare Cider and Mead

Totally Cider Tour: Normandy - September 23 - 29, 2018 contact ria@ciderchat. com to reserve your space on this upcoming trip.

Ask for the following ciders - By supporting these cidermakers, you in turn help Cider Chat

  1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
  2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
  3. Oliver’s Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
  4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
  5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
  6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
  7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
  8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg s
  9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia
  10. Tanuki Cider Co. Santa Cruz California episode 103

Join the #ciderGoingUP Campaign today! 

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

 

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